Navigating Love: Dating with Disabilities

What if navigating the dating world could be as empowering as it is challenging, especially when visible disabilities come into play? Join us as we sit down with Disability Rights Arkansas team members, co-host Jamie, and our insightful guests Wensday Kramer and Sherice Smith, to explore the evolving landscape of dating with disabilities. We discuss the pros and cons of online and in-person dating, as Wednsday shares her journey of stepping away from dating apps, and Sherice highlights the accessibility and convenience these platforms provide. Together, we uncover the essence of forming genuine connections, looking beyond societal perceptions, and focusing on authenticity and self-acceptance.

Chapters

• 0:00 Navigating Dating With Disabilities
• 11:09 Navigating Disability Disclosure in Dating
• 16:56 Challenges of Dating With Disabilities
• 25:40 Dating in Your 40s
• 29:15 Parental Guidance on Dating With Disabilities
• 36:40 Navigating Red Flags in Dating
• 48:39 Empowerment and Insight in Dating
• 57:30 Everyday Advocacy for Disability Rights

Transcript

Amber : 0:00

Welcome to Including you a podcast by Disability Rights Arkansas. On this podcast, we shine a light on the real everyday experiences of people with disabilities the challenges, triumphs and all the moments in between. At Disability Rights Arkansas, we're committed to providing guidance to people with disabilities on navigating their rights, tackling everyday issues and accessing the support they need in a complex world. In this podcast, including you, we bring that information directly to you, the listener. We'll cover topics like accessibility questions, building your career, securing the care you deserve and even navigating the nuances of love and relationships as a person with a disability, because everyone has the right to know their rights Everyone, including you. So, whether you're a seasoned advocate or someone just starting to think differently about disability, you're in the right place.

Amber : 1:02

I'm your host, amber Quaid, and together we'll explore how small, meaningful changes can make a big difference. Let's dive in. Thank you all for joining us today. I'm your host, amber Quaid, and we're going to talk about dating with disabilities, but first I want to let y'all know I have a co-host here with me today. Say hi, jamie, hi guys, thanks for tuning in. And we also have two amazing special guests with us today. We're going to first start with Wednesday and then move to Cherise, if y'all want to take a moment and introduce yourselves.

Wensday: 1:36

Hi. Yes, Thank you for having me. My name is Wednesday Kramer. No, I was not born on Wednesday. I get that all the time. My name comes from the Adams family. I work here at Disability Rights Arkansas as a disability employment advocate. I'm really excited for today's conversation on dating with a disability. I am for some context with my answer. I am 29. I will be 30 this year, so that definitely really lends itself to how I view this topic and, yeah, I'm excited for today.

Sherice: 2:08

Hello, I am Cherise Smith. I have been with Disability Rights Arkansas for over a year. I am their special project coordinator. I have been a disability advocate for over 20 years. I am 45 years old and I have lived experience with disabilities. I have spina bifida.

Wensday: 2:33

Oh, yes, I should have added too I also was born with spina bifida, so I used a wheelchair my whole life, which adds to the dating arena which adds to the dating arena.

Amber : 2:48

Well, thank you both for sharing that and for talking with us today. As you notice, they said they're all part of Disability Rights Arkansas. We all work together and so this is going to make for a lovely casual conversation. But, in case you were also wondering, they mentioned their ages, and it's because we wanted to give different perspectives and different ideas about dating disabilities. So let's kind of just dive right in Basically, with February having people think about love, valentine's Day, we thought it would be the perfect time to have a casual conversation about dating with a disability, and I really can't wait to see what y'all have to say on the topic. So let's start with how do you approach dating?

Sherice: 3:32

My approach to dating has evolved over the years. Now it's more about online dating. I have no aspirations for being married or children. I'm happy being, you know, just casual dating. So I look at it as just an activity to do and it just depends. Everything is different now. You know it used to be. You could do one-on-one connections, but now, with online dating, that's how I do most of my dating so my approach to dating has definitely evolved.

Wensday: 4:11

I know we're going to touch on online dating and dating apps in a minute, which I have plenty to say about that, um, but you know I did start with that in my early 20s, even recently, but it's a new year and at the end of last year I deleted all my dating apps.

Wensday: 4:27

We'll see if I go back to them or not at some point, but I really wanted to give myself this year to try to date in the wild is what I like to say. Put myself out there, go to more events Our weather hasn't been like the best recently but really trying to find different places to meet people and really put myself out there, I think I'm going to start a challenge where, at least once a month, I have to find an event where there could be plenty of single people around my age to go, and, yeah, and just put myself out there, meet people in person, and you know see how that works. Just put myself out there, meet people in person and, and you know see how that works, I actually, uh, I had a date somewhat recently and I met that person, um, through, uh, in-person activity, um so yeah, and that brings us onto our next question.

Jaime: 5:22

So what are y'all's thoughts on dating apps and online dating, and pros and cons, for sure, of both of them?

Sherice: 5:27

Online dating. It definitely has its benefits. Number one it's really accessible for a person with a disability. I don't have to leave my house to meet people. I can do that initial, getting to know you online through video chats and things of that nature before going on an actual date. So it's made dating definitely more accessible and it's widened my choices. The only problem is the choices are horrible. So there is that. So there is that. And the con is, you know everybody, there's all these tips. That is one of the uh cons and um.

Sherice: 6:33

Also, you know, one of the things I didn't like about is Wednesday. Put it, meeting people out in a while is getting their gut reaction to my disability and not having to have that awkward conversation because I use a wheelchair and my disability is indeed very visible. So when I meet someone, I know their first reaction says it all, and so that is the thing. But dating, you know, dating with apps is good because you get to know people, you get to talk to people and I've even met people who I've become friends with. So even if I didn't get a date, I did get some friends and that was kind of nice to just to have some male companionship to talk you know, I have to say I agree with a lot, pretty much everything Sharice said.

Wensday: 7:23

Although, sharice, I don't know what dating apps you're on that like then equal good friendships, so I don't know how to talk after this about that. I would say you know again a pro, the accessibility you know kind of I don't know what word to use other than like vet. Like you know, go through people. Not really waste a lot of time if you're decide that you're not very compatible. Through people, not really waste a lot of time if you're decide that you're not very compatible. Um, I think a con um, again like what Sheree said, is, uh, you don't necessarily get their immediate real reaction, especially being someone in a wheelchair, with a disability. Um, and in person, I find that it's easier for people to get to know me quicker and not just make a whole lot of as many assumptions as they can on a dating profile. And while dating profiles do provide you a lot of choices, I actually have found it pretty exhausting and honestly discouraging that there are all these people out there and honestly discouraging that there are all these people out there but none of them are a match, I guess you'll say, or a good fit. And yeah, I've seen all those like dating tips and what to put in your profile, what pictures you need, what she'd write in your bio, all of this other stuff, and it just feels like it becomes almost like this game and if you swipe on like 10 people and you don't get a single person swiping back on you, it's hard. You know, I've worked on my comments a lot over the years but it's hard to not get a hit to a confidence from that and I think in person it's easier to feel the vibes in to.

Wensday: 9:09

Yeah, I also will say with dating apps, I think while you can vet people and decide you know basic things if you're interested or not. For me I am someone that for me it very much depends on like how they are in person and their much depends on like how they are in person and their personality and like how they speak and speak to others. And I think that's so hard to tell on an app and I think there's some people that you know I wouldn't necessarily like typically be someone I'm like attracted to, but I meet them in person, their personality really shines and then you know that might be someone to be interested in that I that I honestly probably want to be interested on. If I just saw on their dating profile Also. I mean, I don't see women's profiles but men's profiles. They need some work and they they usually don't have enough information, and so I'm just like how am I supposed to determine anything based on this?

Amber : 9:59

Well, thank you both for sharing things I didn't even think about. When it comes especially dating apps versus in person, but in talking about like video conferencing or meeting in person, how soon would you disclose your disability?

Sherice: 10:16

Well for me, I will be perfectly honest, when I was Wednesday's age, my confidence in the opposite sex wasn't great, so it did take me a little longer to disclose my disability, because I wasn't sure how they would react and people in that age group are a little less mature and so you never knew, kind of, what you were going to get. And unfortunately, because I did take so long to disclose, one time I had a really bad a guy that had a really bad reaction and it was hurtful and I was like, well, I'm just going to be done with that and I'm just going to tell them up front. It's going to be one of the first things I say and if they like it, they like it, and if they don't, they like it, and if they don't, they don't. And I'm just going to keep it moving.

Sherice: 11:09

And also, I've embraced my disability much more as I've gotten older and I'm very proud of my disability, where I don't think I was necessarily. I think I was always proud, but I didn't think people would be as accepting as they are now. I think the growth of people with disabilities being more visible and people with disabilities being seen on different platforms and things like that has made people more accepting than they were, you know, when I was Wednesday's age and I think that was also part of the problem is that we just were not seen as much as we are now. It wasn't as talked about. So now I tell immediately like I have a disability, like it, love it, whatever's not really my problem, and if a person can accept that then that's not the person I really need to be with anyway.

Wensday: 12:04

Do you guys ever mature? You did say that. I almost interjected. I was like do you guys ever mature, though I think I think it might be. I think the older I get, I think guys are going to mature and this hasn't happened yet, but I'm hopeful that maybe it will eventually happen.

Wensday: 12:23

But I so when I first started on dating apps, I was I don't know 20, 21. I was young, I'm still an undergrad, and I think the first dating app I was on first profile I ever made, because I've been on and off them throughout the years. That's why I said earlier like, oh, who knows if I'll retab with them at some point, but I'm really, really trying to do this year a year without them. But when I made my first dating profile, I just didn't have any good, I think, pictures without a lot of friends in it, where you really could see my wheelchair and I don't know. I just think you know it's not my, you know it's not the only interesting thing about me. There's plenty of other interesting things about me that don't have to do with my disability too, um, and me as a person, and so I just didn't and I just have a picture. I was like I'm just gonna put these pictures up, and I had been talking to someone and, um, it was just a few messages and then, um, we I think we're had just hung out with some friends, and so we were both sending pictures to each other, and those pictures you could clearly see I'm in a wheelchair and it wasn't like I was going to hide anything. If we actually want to date, but again, this was like one of our like first conversations ever, um, and as soon as in a picture, uh, not a single other message just deleted me, um, and so I was like, oh well, so you know, I feel like there's obvious, only one obvious reason why you would be doing that. And so after that, like, I took some, um, you know, cute pictures, pictures where you can clearly see I was disabled, and I make sure I have, anytime I'm dating apps, several on my profile, um, just so it's clear. Uh, I don't bring it up really ever, though, when I'm talking to guys, I feel like you know, um, it's on my dating profile, like you'll, you know, it's on there for you to see. Um, now, of course, I may not bring up my disability, but I've definitely had my fair share of men bring up my disability. I get the.

Wensday: 14:17

I've gotten several really interesting messages. I think you know some. I uh, yeah, I I um. A lot of times, depending on people's reaction and questions, they'll get deleted. I get a lot of uh. I've gotten several questions about how I would um interact with them in various uh, personal ways, ways. I guess you could say, um, and it's just so interesting me that that would be your first line on a dating app, um, so you know it's, it's been interesting and and I don't tend to get that really in person, which is also why I've enjoyed in-person interactions at least people in person have a little more decorum, I guess you would say, and have a bit more of a filter.

Sherice: 15:07

So yeah, Something Wednesday said that was interesting and something that made me think about is you know, one of the negatives about showing your disability right away is you either get deleted or you get a litany of questions that has nothing to do with you as a person. They want to know about your sexuality and how that works. They ask really stupid questions that make no sense and then they feel like they could be like the most invasive and that that's okay and they can say ask you the most personal of questions after they just met you. They know nothing about you so because of your disability, they feel like that gives them a right to ask you whatever they want and nothing is off limits, nothing is too personal or anything to ask.

Wensday: 15:57

And I just have to say, if I'm on a dating app, I think some things should just be obvious to some degree. You know, I just think some something don't need to be asked. Yes, if I get back in the dating app eventually again or hopefully I don't have to, but if I do eventually get back on them, I can't wait for, with the confidence I have now, what I know now. I can't wait for some responses that I'm planning on sending, depending on what I get asked, Because I have some really creative responses now for what I've previously been told and that's exactly what I was just thinking from you both.

Amber : 16:35

I was like I'm pretty sure y'all have some snappy comebacks for just ridiculous questions that'll be asked. Like nobody tolerates ridiculous questions, I mean, there's times people just walk off. So why people think it's appropriate in any situation is just beyond me.

Jaime: 16:51

Yeah, definitely blows my mind for sure. So I guess that kind of goes also to our next kind of topic too. So dating with a disability how unique it is, how different it is, you know, sometimes compared to people who don't have one.

Sherice: 17:04

Well, you know, it's unique in a way that you know, when I date a guy, they're like, oh, I want to take you somewhere. And it's a surprise. I'm like, no, I can't do surprises, I can't afford surprises. I need to know exactly where we're going, because I need to know if it's accessible. Well, I checked. Well, you don't have a disability, Trust me. You didn't check well enough. Or, trust me, they told you some line or told you something, or you probably just looked on a website and said it was accessible and I can assure you. You know, just let me check. And that's one of the things that's like unique. And also the invasive questions. And it's like you don't even dude, you don't even like know me and how can you ask me about sex or my ability to have children? Like that's after hello and what's your name. And I mean, do you ask anybody else those questions when you first meet them? And I'm almost positive you don't. So that's unique. And also there's this thing where some of them are trying to be so cool with it that they go out of their way to like show that they're really cool with you having a disability. That like. I had an experience where there was like someone in a parking spot spot, accessible parking spot that did not need it, and he wanted to talk to the manager, he wanted to file a complaint. He was like I was like that is like a first class problem, let's react, let's just relax a little bit. I'm not excited about it either, but there's no need for going to have a World War III over a parking spot.

Sherice: 18:52

Then there's these people that have disability fetishes. That's a person who fetishizes people with disabilities and they're called devotism. They go for people who have disabilities and it is weird. It is so weird and you could pick it up almost immediately after about five minutes of conversation, because they'll tell you how they've dated. You know, five people with a disability. And dating with a person with a disability, unless you're in that world, is unique. You know, not a lot of people have dated more than one or two people with a disability if they don't have a disability themselves. So if they tell me, oh, I've dated one person with death, one person was the amputee, one person was in a wheelchair, one person you know was black, I'm like, okay, you have a problem, it was very nice to meet you, but I think I'm done here, and so those kinds of things are unique.

Sherice: 20:00

And then you also get where you have to skirt this fine line of telling them about your disability without making it like a medical conversation and keeping it casual and keeping it common sense. I have a disability, I use a wheelchair. I'm paralyzed from the waist down so I need my wheelchair and I can't go anywhere without it. I sometimes have spasms, whatever. It is those common sense things that you need to tell them, but you don't need to give them a medical history of what spina bifida is and how it affects you and all of that. You don't need to go into all of that because that number one, that's not important to the dating experience. And number two, it's not sexy. Nothing about a medical conversation is sexy, and if it is, you should seek professional help.

Wensday: 20:44

I would also say something that I didn't really hear Charisse mention, but I know Charisse and I have talked about dating a lot outside of this conversation too. So our experiences is not just the dating experience for us and the people we're dating or interested in dating or anything like that, but other people around interested in dating or you know anything like that, but other people around. So, like you know I'm sure Sharice is I'm definitely used to people staring at me. Tis my life. I don't really care what other people think at this point. I think being disabled, you kind of have to have a thick skin, but you know, someone else might not be used to that. I will also say I've gotten some and I think, well, I don't even know what I want to say this Well-meaning I don't know if they're well-meaning comments about people I've gone out with.

Wensday: 21:31

I remember in college I went as a friend with a guy to a sorority function and a couple weeks later I was at an event and a girl came up to me who I kind of knew, but I didn't say we were close or anything. And a girl came up to me who I kind of knew, but I didn't say we were close or anything. And she was like, oh, I saw you went with the guy's name to this event. And I was like, oh yeah, it was a lot of fun. You know, whatever you'd say, and she goes oh yeah, that's just so great that he went with you. He just goes like he just loves going with everyone. And I don't think I knew at that moment I was like 20, I was 20 at this point and I was like I didn't even know what to say. And I was with a friend and and they were like, no, he's really busy, like I think you know they're friends and he wanted to go with her. Uh, and now I would have a uh, more of a response to that individual if I, if something like that happened to me again. But I just think it's so interesting that people think that it's valiant or someone's a hero or such a great guy if they go out with me.

Wensday: 22:35

I had other people tell me like, oh, you just need a really special guy. And I'm like, well, I hope I don't just date someone that's not special. I do want someone special. Doesn't everyone want to be with someone special? I just think it's so interesting those responses I get.

Wensday: 22:50

You know, I bring and I've had to do a lot of work on myself and, like Therese mentioned, I think even when I grew up, there's not a lot of representation of people with disabilities in general, let alone dating, and I've had to work on myself a lot and be confident but, dang like I put a lot to the table. Who's lucky to date me? And I just I think it's so weird the comments and questions and things I've gotten and that other people with disabilities get related to dating. And I also have some questions too about, well, have you tried dating someone with a disability?

Wensday: 23:25

Like, well, if I met someone with a disability and I was vibing with them and they asked me out, I would say yes, like it's just not like a, oh, I'm just going to go search it. Like you know, I live in a pretty rural state. There's not that many people here. There's only so many people in general my age, so I'm not going to just be like, let me just find someone that you know is exactly like me in every way. I just also think that's kind of weird when I get those questions too.

Sherice: 23:49

You know, that's something that someone actually said to me was why don't you? It would be so much easier if you just dated a person with a disability. Wouldn't your life be so much easier? And I'm like, dating is hard and if I found the person with a disability who I vibe with, sure, but I'm not gonna limit myself, because it makes other people feel better and they're like oh, it's so good of this person to take you out, so he's the one that's lucky. I'm not lucky, he's lucky that I chose him. Because I chose him, he didn't choose me. I was born snarky, so that helps helps.

Wensday: 24:27

I was just going to add to I've seen some online discourse related to dating with disability and I've even seen on like threads and stuff where people are like, oh, I'm interested in someone with a disability, but you know how would I need to help them? Or you know what would be my responsibilities and I'm like I can make it over 30 years of my life without you. Clearly don't. I don't need your assistance and when that time conversation comes, we'll have that conversation. But no need to worry about, on the before the first date, what I might need. Uh, all assistance with. I've made it through life without you.

Amber : 24:56

I think I'm okay what both of y'all said. I was like I don't know if you saw us over here trying not to interrupt y'all talking, but we were clapping and we were like whoa, this is just like spot on. This is like I think people really need to hear that and understand exactly what you both just brought to light, which so I'm going to kind of like break it up a little bit here, only because I'm interested really at this point is how is dating going based on your age group? Because I know we talked about age earlier at the beginning and y'all have a few years in between y'all, so it's kind of a different experience in today's day and age. So how has dating been going based on your particular age group?

Sherice: 25:40

The pickings are slim in my age group because most people are in their 40s, are usually married right or want to get married, and I, as I expressed earlier, I have no interest in that. So you know, most of them either are and so it's the the pickings are. If they're slim when I was in my 20s, they're extra slim now. Uh, but people in my age group are much more or at least the guys that I've come across are much more mature and accepting of my disability. It's not as much as a big deal as it was when I was younger. You know, they still want to know about personal things, about sex and things like that. You know, because they're men and but they don't, they don't focus on it in as much.

Sherice: 26:26

In a way that's weird and I think that's because as you age, things start happening to your body and you slow down and you start having health conditions and things like that. If you're in your 40s and you don't have at least one medication you're taking, you're doing really great. So I think that that's helpful because of the men in my age group. But a lot of older people because I do tend to date older are not tech savvy, so online dating is hard and older people are traditionalists, right. So go meet somebody out in the wild and don't get offline. That's not real life, that's not real people. So it can be a mixed bag in your 40s. It can be something else in your 40s, when you're 45.

Wensday: 27:19

Yeah, I am in the thick of everyone being married. It seems like I just want to say too, for those listening to this not everyone is married, not everyone's found their person. It might feel like it, definitely can feel like it, but not everyone is. But I think it's interesting what Sheree said about how you know, men do mature a little bit as they get older and I do find I don't know if I want to say better luck, but I mean really better luck in more genuine, engaging conversations with men that are older.

Wensday: 27:57

I don't really have a lot of interest or speak to a lot of men in their 20s. Usually it's you know, men that are, you know, maybe six, ten years older. Um is really where I found that things get a little bit better. I guess you would say um and and again, there uh seem to be a little bit more interested in like companionship and like meeting, uh, someone for reasons other than just like oh, look who I'm dating, or um, or sex and things like that. It seems a bit more genuine on other fronts as well.

Sherice: 28:32

I guess I should reframe that and say they're not more mature. I think they just care less, maybe because their pickings are slim too. So they're like okay, this is what we got, let's do this, we're doing it, we're doing it. So I think that's also part of it as well. Maybe they're not more mature, it's just they care less.

Wensday: 28:55

At a certain age they're like it's all fine, well, and I also think they've probably had more experiences and clearly, if they're in the dating scene, dating hasn't really worked for them um long terms and maybe, yeah, they're more open to other possibilities and just like you know, like let me see, let me you know, their brain is a little bit more fully developed.

Jaime: 29:15

So when y'all first started showing interest in dating when you guys were younger, how did your parents react to that, or what was their kind of you know intro conversation to dating when you guys were younger?

Sherice: 29:26

Well, my father was not okay with it, and I'm 45 years old and he's still not okay with it. He'll never be okay with it. He's so against it. Men are horrible. I explained to him that he's also a man and he's the only one that will ever love me, according to him. So there's that.

Sherice: 29:45

My mother, on the other hand, my stepmother, who raised me, was very much like you need to know what dating is like. This is what people try to do. Don't let they will take advantage of you. They will. You know. They will try to do anything to get you into bed. They will. No, don't let a man treat you Know your worth. So my stepmother was very much about making sure I was prepared for dating.

Sherice: 30:19

But I later went to go live with my mother and I didn't even go to my prom because my mother was like you're not getting in a car and you're not going on a date with a guy without us, without us, you know going with you and you have a chaperone. I'm like there's chaperones there. They were like absolutely not. We don't know what this person will do, I think also, and then by the time my sister came along, who's 13 years younger than I am, she doesn't have a disability but my parents were like, fine, she can go out with anybody she wants. I think by the time they got to the younger ones they were just tired, anyway, but so it was like whatever.

Sherice: 30:57

But my parents were definitely more protective. But my stepmom in particular was like telling me you need to be prepared for real life. She always prepared me for real life. She made me work at a young age because she thought it was important that I made my own money and not rely on the government and people. She wanted me to have good grades and go to school because she didn't want to limit my possibilities, because she knew the world would limit me. And she also knew with dating that people were mean and cruel and she wanted me to be prepared to have thick skin for all of that. And now my parents my mom just wants me to have grandchildren, give her grandchildren. And my dad still is like no.

Wensday: 31:44

I would say for my parents, particularly my mom, I think really just had to have the conversation. Actually, I should back up and say I'm an only child so I have no way to compare you know how my parents would be with other children. The main conversation I think that would be different if my parents had other children is my mom just, you know, did at a really young age, appropriately, and then especially a lot in high school before going to college, explain the idea of like fetishism and the statistics behind people with disabilities being sexually assaulted compared to those without disabilities, and so having a lot of real life, tough conversations with me just to make sure that I was aware and you know, and careful. Obviously I think everyone needs to be careful, but I think really making me aware of, like I said, the statistics, and then I mean above that I mean my I'm sure my dad also thinks there's probably not anyone that's, you know, great enough for me, um, but I've gone on some dates and my parents haven't had a lot to say.

Wensday: 32:57

I didn't really date when I was a teenager at all. I'm from a small town, um, so I didn't really date until I started going to college and and all of that. So by then my parents basically had the. You know, he better be a nice guy and he better treat you right, and I mean you're an adult. So that really was the only conversations we've really had related to dating. So yeah, I will say there was one time I was on a dating app. I was at home one weekend and I was swiping through and my mom was like what are you doing? I'm like, oh, look look at who, like look at these men. And I'm like, wait, why'd you say no to him? Wait, why'd you say yes to him? And I had to explain. She goes oh, interesting, because you know, that wasn't really how, that's not how my parents met, and so this is all very interesting. So I think she supports my going in the wild journey this year.

Sherice: 33:52

So yeah, I will say that my mother, in particular, was very much against me going on a dating app when I was Wednesday's age because, you know, you just didn't know what you were going to get.

Sherice: 34:12

You know, and my mother watched a lot of crime shows when I was coming up, so everybody was a serial killer or a rapist or something. So she was like go outside. And I was not a person who liked to go out and meet people and things like that, because I am actually very introverted and don't like to socialize a lot. And so she was like no, go meet people. And I think now, as time has evolved, she's much more okay with me meeting people on online, but she's like go to a public place. And also, one thing I wanted to mention is when I first started mentioning dating my parents my mother, not my dad my mother talked to me about sexuality and sex and protection and being very careful, because she understood that I could have children and nobody needs a single mother, and so she was very much about talking about protection. She's like I can't stop you from doing it, you know what it is and I'm going to give you all the information. So she was very sure to give me all the information about sex.

Wensday: 35:24

Yeah, my mom was as well and I think that took you know the mystery out of it. She's like oh, this is what it is. It's like oh, this is what it is. Very like, this is what it is. And so I was like okay, um, I should add to just a point. Um, for context, for people I am definitely an extrovert. Um, so just a difference between Sharice and I.

Amber : 35:44

I was like like well, just in my head, I can understand having very protective parents and them wanting to like basically keep you in their little safe bubble. But I love that your parents were also very informative. They wanted you to know, they wanted you to be informed, so that way, when they finally did let you out of the bubble to be able to go and experience the world that's around you, which is to me, I kind of want to talk about how that has kind of evolved, because I know Wednesday you were talking about like you started dating when you were in college. So I want you to kind of compare that time to now. And for Charisse you've talked a lot about back when you were Wednesday's age, dating was this way. So if you could compare kind of back when you were Wednesday's age to now and just kind of give us a little bit insight about how dating has changed as you've aged.

Sherice: 36:40

For me, dating has changed in a way that there are more possibilities for dating. They're not good possibilities, let me be very clear. They are not good possibilities currently I am an optimist, so they have to get better, because you can't fall off the floor but I think that there are more options in terms of availability. You can go online and you can go meet people out. I've built a community of friends with different interests and so they say, oh, I have this person and so they might introduce me to somebody person and you know, and so they might introduce me to somebody, and so you know. So in that way, dating has changed. Where I think my possibilities were very limited, we're in a very rural state where I can't just and I don't drive, so I have to rely on transportation. So my places that I can go is very limited, which can be frustrating. But that's why I think online dating is so great, because I can go anywhere.

Wensday: 37:53

Basically, I would say for me and dating as I've gotten older has been easier in some ways and harder, and I'll kind of explain. I'll start with the more negative, the harder. You know, in college you're around so many more people in person and so it's just, you know, numbers game. It's easier to meet people. Less people are already with people and so, you know, as you get older I mentioned it it feels like and while not everyone is, it feels like everyone's with someone, married, things like that, and so I think that makes it harder.

Wensday: 38:27

I think for me, somebody's dating has gotten easier because, compared to when I was 20, 21, that age, I have grown a lot in my confidence and very secure in who I am and also what I want out of someone and what I'm looking for, and so I think that's helpful. I think when you really know yourself well and your values, like know what you're looking for in a relationship, I think that can kind of help with the noise of all of these options, especially when you're on online dating apps or even meeting people in person. So I think it's gotten harder in some respects and easier in other respects. And then, like we were kind of talking about earlier, with the age thing. I think the older I've gotten, then men in their late 30s. It's not odd for me to date men in their late 30s now, and I think that's helped. Being older and then having older men as a viable option, that doesn't feel weird to me.

Amber : 39:28

so I'm gonna get off on a sidetrack here a little bit only because I, just for my own personal interest, I just wonder have you because I know we all have our trusted group of friends have your friends ever set y'all up on blind dates and if so, how did that go?

Wensday: 39:48

I try to. I ask my friends all the time, all the time Please let me up with someone you know. And they're like nope, you would say no to this guy. For this reason I wouldn't want my friend to be this guy. I'm like so you're telling me you're a boyfriend or husband and I have one good man friend that's single. And they're like nope, they're all, they're all with someone or they're all terrible and you deserve better. And I'm like okay, well, so I guess I'll just be single forever.

Wensday: 40:17

But I try, but no one, no one wants to. And they're like no, thank you, I'm good. So they just try to give me suggestions of like where I can meet people. And then a lot of times, a lot of times I could just get I'm so glad I met someone, because I couldn't do this. I would just be single if I were you too, because I couldn't do this dating scene right now. So, yeah, my friends unfortunately haven't been very helpful on that front. They will let me call them in rants about dating, but yeah, they haven't been so helpful with helping me actually find someone.

Sherice: 40:49

I am in the exact same boat as Wednesday. My friends are like the people I know are terrible or they're taken or you know something like that, and they're like now you can call and complain about dating. You can definitely. That's cool, you know. I call and talk to them and say we rant and, you know, bemoan about dating all the time.

Sherice: 41:17

And so there is this thing where I think a lot of my friends I think it's that they're so protective of me and they know what I will stand for I think they're afraid to send me out there with people that they know they're like I want you to continue being my friend and these people are horrible. Or I know you won't take any stuff, and so you know this guy is not going to be what you're looking for. And uh, or this guy is married or they know something bad about that friend, and I'm like, no, and I'm like he does, you know. So they're all like, just no, just go do this or go do that, and I'll ask them for advice and things like that, and they will give me good advice and full disclosure. I don't set people up my friends up either, for the exact same reason. So I don't set them up either. So it's not that it's not one-sided.

Wensday: 42:12

I will also say just a disclaimer with everything I said so far. I do not consider myself a picky person. I have standards and what I, what I'm looking for, I feel like, is everything that I have. So I feel like I just talked about, like you know, how terrible the dating scene is and all these things, and I really I will say I promise, like I just have standards and I think people disabilities, like all people, should have standards. You can have standards and know what you want and know your worth and if they don't meet that then got to move on to the next one what you want and know your worth and if they don't meet that, then got to move on to the next one.

Sherice: 42:45

I, on the other hand, am picky. I have I've dated enough where I know what I don't want and what I do want and I'm only going to go for that. I'm not going to say he's a great guy, but you know he's a great guy, but you know so I am very picky and I won't settle for anything less than what I want. You know I'd rather be alone than unhappy. So I am very picky to a fault almost. You know my friends like well, who do you want to meet? Who do you want to date Jesus? I'm like no, he doesn't have a car.

Wensday: 43:22

So I don't think that's picky though I don't think that's being picky. I think that's just knowing what you want and that's it. I think that is perfectly acceptable and not being picky.

Sherice: 43:32

And see, I do too, and you know yeah.

Jaime: 43:37

No, I mean, I think it's super great to have standards, you know, but sometimes for some people I feel like the bar is just so low and they still can't meet those. Have standards, you know, but sometimes for some people I feel like the bar is just so low and they still can't meet those basic standards, you know. So it's super annoying, it's super challenging, but it actually brings me to my next favorite topic red flags and dating, because I know we can go on for a while about some red flags. What are some of y'all's like? You know, big red flags when you guys were first starting to talk to people or meeting people for the first time.

Sherice: 44:03

Well, for me we talked about the disability fetish. People who have the disability fetish that's huge red flag. That's always job one Looking out for. That is because it's just weird.

Sherice: 44:16

Another red flag is when I feel that someone feels like they're doing me a favor or that they're trying to take care of me.

Sherice: 44:27

They see me as a person that needs to be taken care of and I do want to be provided for and all of that, but not in the way of I'm a child, I'm helpless or something like that.

Sherice: 44:39

But as I am a partner, let me take care of you and you take care of me in a mutual way. So when I feel like someone just wants to do everything for me and just have me kind of carted around, those are huge red flags for me, because I don't want them to think of me that way and it's like helpless. So that's a red flag. And also it's a red flag when, like someone is like I don't know they, they, they see me as this charity case or they see me as, like I said, someone to be taken care of, or they feel like my standards should be so low that they can just do anything and I'm just going to be okay with it. Those are often red flags and I don't meet people in clubs because if you want to know about the dating cesspool, a club is horrible and I don't go there. There's just red flags just all over the place, so I do stay away from that.

Wensday: 45:53

I agree with everything Charisse said. Also, I don't know if this is a red flag on myself, but when someone's too interested too fast, I'm like, oh, I don't know, you don't know me that. Well, please, too much, too much. So when someone's too nice, I always am like, oh, I don't know how I feel about that. Uh, but you could, it could be meaning to think things through, but I just too strong, too too fast is is something that I red flag for me.

Sherice: 46:23

That's a good one. When they're too nice and they try to love bomb you or something like that, that's a huge red flag. Love bombing, you know. And then when, then I'm really let down. When it all stops, you know, and it's like I got all this, you know so. When they go too much too fast of affection or whatever I'm like, so you know, if's like I got all this, you know so.

Amber : 46:43

When they go too much, too fast of affection or whatever I'm like, so you know, if they start love bombing me, that's a huge red flag so Charisse was just talking about how, with the love bombing coming at her, and then it just suddenly stops it like it can feel a little bit. To me it seemed like a rejection, and I know Wednesday was talking about ghosting earlier. So how do y'all handle? Like rejection or heartbreak?

Wensday: 47:08

Like anyone else without a disability. Call a friend, say some colorful language to them to get your anchor out.

Sherice: 47:21

Ice cream, a good movie, a nap you know all those things, retail therapy, all the things you know. It's just, we handle heartbreak and rejection just like everyone else. It's not our disability is is not going to make us handle it different. It is, I will say, for me more painful when I know I'm getting rejected purely on the fact that I have a disability. That makes it harder, but I get a rejection and heartbreak just like anybody else, you know.

Wensday: 47:54

I want to expand a little on what Sharice said. I think in some ways, if I think it's a rejection because of my disability, it's really hard to not let the societal um, views and thoughts creep in, um and and it's really difficult again lack of representation that really still exists and like, oh, is it? You know, is this an issue? Or you know, it's really hard not to go to that place. I will say at the same time, because of my disability, other conditions I have and stuff, I've had a lot of surgeries, I've had a lot of, I've gone through a lot in my 30 years and so, like a boy saying, I don't like you, it's not like the worst thing that's happened to me, and so I think in some ways I'm like, okay, whatever, on to the next. You weren't good enough anyway.

Amber : 48:39

And that's one of the reasons I wanted to ask that question is because you know that is a standard dating question and I just wanted people to take a moment and reflect on the fact that we all handle rejection and heartbreak pretty much the same way. I mean, I'm pretty much leaning more towards like the retail therapy that Sharice was talking about, but I'm pretty sure my co-host, Jamie, may handle a little different way, but we all handle it pretty much in the same way.

Jaime: 49:06

Yeah, for sure. I mean definitely. You know, like a good girls' night with some of your friends, you know good movie, comfy PJs, and you can kind of, you know, just have, you know the spicy language, and then you know some tears of B&B and it all works out, and you know, you just kind of say thank you next and you move on. So on with that. How would you guys, or what would you guys, tell someone with a disability who is wanting to get out? There's somebody who is wanting to start dating.

Sherice: 49:33

You know. I would just tell them know your standards, know your worth and know that if a person rejects you because of your disability or you know something like that, they weren't meant for you and you don't want that in your life anyway. But I would just tell them know your worth, Don't limit yourself to you know I'm only going to date this type of person or that type of person you know. Just go with your standards. Don't limit your standards, because dating is hard. Dating is hard In your 40s. Dating without a disability is hard. Dating with a disability is really hard, you know. But don't lower your standards because you're not going to. What's going to end up happening is you're not going to get what you want and so get what you want. It's okay to be alone and get you some great friends, like I have, and find your people and go that way.

Wensday: 50:41

I think, yeah, dating sucks. I don't know if everyone heard that interjection. I said earlier Dating sucks. I think dating sucks for everyone. What I see people online say like dating's so fun. I'm like what are you doing? How is dating for you? I would like that. I just like to skip to the relationship part, but I would echo what Sheree says.

Wensday: 51:02

I think know your worth. You are worth worthy of being loved, um and cared for. Uh, and while it might seem like it, not everyone is again, not everyone's with someone. Um, and what you see on social media, a lot of it's fake. A lot of it's fake. It is not real life. Not everyone is happy and thrilled and all of these things. You have no idea what's going on behind closed doors. I think it's important to keep that in mind.

Wensday: 51:28

And, yeah, having good friends and I think, I think having fans is important and I think, while you know we want people to have an open mind and not make assumptions about us, I think it's important to have you know to be, to have an open mind when you're dating two to some degree as well. Have those standards and with everything else outside of those standards, you know being willing to explore and you know you might not end up with someone who you thought was your like quote-unquote type to you know, just kind of really, you know, try different personalities and people and have your core standards and then everything else. Just see, you know what's out there and sometimes dating is just awkward. It just is what it is. Dating is just awkward and it'll just be a funny story in a few years. Like you know it. Just you know you'll make it through.

Sherice: 52:17

Yeah, you'll laugh about it. You won't laugh about it now, but one day you'll laugh about it. It's not going to be funny now. I'm telling you now, it's not funny now, but you will laugh about it later.

Amber : 52:27

Y'all have just given like just all the love and empowerment, and that's exactly what I think people need in the dating environment. I agree it is a struggle for everybody and dating can be good at sometimes and bad at others. So, charise, this question is gonna be directed just for you, okay. So what dating advice would you give someone who's in wednesday's age group? Just something that you would just absolutely want them to know that you haven't already kind of given us. But if you could go back in time and we're Wednesday's age, what is something that you would want to know then?

Sherice: 53:08

I think that I the one thing I wish I had been more fully into myself in terms of my disability, empowerment and knowing that. You know, my disability is a piece of me and it's a great piece of me, but it's not the only part of me, and if someone doesn't like that, can't accept that, then pound sand. You know, I wished I'd have known that. I wished I'd have also known that I don't have to, because I was in a relationship when I was a little younger than Wednesday for a long time and I was with that person after the expiration of the relationship, but I kept hold to that person because they were comfortable and I didn't know if I would be in a relationship like that again, and so there is another person out there for me, and so I think that's what I would have told my younger self.

Amber : 54:10

I'm over here clapping because I was like I love that advice Absolutely. I was like loving yourself first and knowing your value first, Absolutely.

Jaime: 54:20

Okay, and then. So Wednesday, this question is for you. What would you want someone who has just started dating to know?

Wensday: 54:30

Again, I echo Sharice and I have similar, different but similar experiences and advice. I think knowing your worth is really important. I think I would want people to know that it's okay if dating isn't fun always, and that it's okay to be sad sometimes. It's okay to feel that loneliness and to be sad about it sometimes, and then it's time to pull yourself back up and keep going. I think you need to be cautious for so many reasons, but I think optimism is also important. Have that good group of friends and, yeah, never, never settle. It's okay to feel lonely and also be choosy, and I think really also knowing yourself is important as well.

Amber : 55:21

Over here in tears now. I was like this has just been a wonderful and informative conversation and I would love to give you the opportunity Is there anything that you think should be mentioned in this podcast to let the audience know about dating with disabilities that you think I may have not asked, or that you just want to kind of leave our audience with a few words of wisdom, like you haven't just dropped some golden nuggets on us this whole time. Is there anything else you would like to say?

Sherice: 55:51

You're not alone. Yeah, you're not alone. Have fun, go out there, just have fun. Sometimes. It's not always about finding your person. Dating is a process. Go have fun, go on dates, you know, and just have a good time. You know, don't every person you date is not your person. Don't look for every dating experience that that's your person. That may be the end goal, but that relationship, that date, could be an experience that you need to learn and go through to find and be prepared for your person. So that's what I would say.

Wensday: 56:27

Yeah, dating doesn't have to be serious, Just be fun free food, meeting new people.

Amber : 56:33

Absolutely. I think knowing yourself and meeting new people and just living the life you want to live is the best way we could end this podcast. So I want to thank you both for coming here and sharing your words of wisdom, just sharing your insight and your personal experiences. I appreciate you opening up and being honest with us and having this conversation that I think it was just lovely to have, like we're just all sitting together sipping some tea. I also want to thank Jamie, my co-host, for joining us today and asking additional questions and providing her insight. And then, of course, as always, thank you to our audience for listening in. Thank you for joining us on including you.

Amber : 57:16

We hope today's conversation has sparked ideas, offered guidance or inspired you to take action in your own life and community At Disability Rights. Sparked ideas, offered guidance or inspired you to take action in your own life and community. At Disability Rights, we believe advocacy isn't always about sweeping reforms. It's about the small everyday actions like asking the right questions, standing up when something feels wrong or helping to create a space where everyone feels included. If today's episode resonated with you, visit us at disabilityrightsarorg to learn more about your rights, access resources and find ways to get involved, but don't forget to follow us on social media for updates, tips and stories from the disability community. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a friend, leave us a review or start a conversation, because that's where change begins. Remember everyone deserves to know their rights Everyone, including you. Until next time, I'm Amber Quaid and we'll talk with you again soon.